The Surprising UPSIDE to BLACK HAT SEO!

By | October 16, 2019

One of the things that I keep reading
about is blackhat SEO. And I have a feeling that the term’s being thrown
around a lot. But I have a feeling that the the term that we use today is very
different than what it used to be. So do you have any thoughts on the subject?

– Yeah, that’s actually a very good point because I feel like a lot of SEOs today
like, the tolerance for black hat got way lower.
I would say it that’d be an expression so back in the day black hat SEO was
creating like 10 20 million links per minute to rank for like, porn
queries, poker queries, payday loans, some of those.
– Back in the day being when?
– Back in the day not being in this kind of last few years – it would be I would say 2009-ish, to 2012 All right. It still exists, right?
– To be honest there are a lot of people and there there are some
conferences when people are claimed to be black hats and I usually ask them
questions to see their websites and so on. Most black hats I know
from back in the day evolved heavily into something more sustainable and but
if you look at most of the money queries where you have a lot of affiliate income
from ranking like let’s say top one and you won’t find any like, pure affiliates
as we know them from again back in the day. – Okay.
– So so you can see that these
kind of evolved so if someone is gonna tell you “Okay I’m a massive black hat
affiliate in in in an X niche” see if anyone is ranking with websites like
that. Usually they’re just big brands in top 10 for porn, for
casinos, for payday loans again, for mortgages and so on.
– But talking to lots of different SEO particularly of your generation if was
black hat SEO kind of like part of the process of growth?
– How we started, me and Wojtek my business partner we started as affiliates in 2010-ish and
it was a different game back then. So basically you were going after all of
the casinos and whatnot through building millions of backlinks to a very very
shitty website so you would create like a WordPress or Drupal or whatever
website was like three pages like casino, online casino, and slots or whatever. And
you would build hundreds of thousands of links per day or per hour or whatever to
those landing pages and whoever had the best lists of links – so you had to scrape
them – would win and would make quite a lot of money per day but then all those
web sites would come and go. So there was – you wouldn’t see a website
that’s ranking through blackhat in top one for five years. Like, six
months was a lot and you wouldn’t see that quite often as well. So it was a
different game. Today people go like, say that black hat is if you put a
little bit too many links within your page or whatever so the tolerance is
completely different.
– But now having gone through that process for yourself
I mean I’m just curious about –
– I’m gonna regret talking about that.
– No, I’m just more curious about
where you are now I mean like what did you gain from that experience that you
were able to carry over into a more successful business yeah that’s a very
good question first of all and and that’s something for a lot of people new
in SEO because now that SEO is evolving we do a lot of technical SEO
not sure if you can see the poster on our wall but with technical SEO evolving
there are more and more people going coming into the SEO like landscape from
development so they don’t really have that that history so that’s an
interesting approach because we can see I could like after talking for like half
hour to an SEO I can say okay if that guy was an SEO in 2010 through like like
he’s minded or he or she started with like recently so how what we’ve gained
from that is back in the day and again 2010 ish it was all about playing the
algorithm finding loopholes trying to be very very creative and like for example
finding like a forum that you can scrape all of the websites using that forum
engine and be the first one to spam the hell of that Docs forums because you
would get like 2,000 referring domains with let’s say half million links and
you would rank that was like a lot of money so just writing that script for
like X rammer would give you sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars per
month so that was a different different game I was I actually regret looking at
the path that I was little bit late to that but so what I’ve gained through
that is you had to be very very technical and if you think that nowadays
you have to be on top of changes in Google that game was different because
everyone was after like there was there were hundreds of thousands of a SEOs or
athletes all around the world going after probably few thousand keywords so
it was a very exciting race that was like a Wild West
yeah but it was like you could compare that to some very bizarre eSport to wrap
up what I’m really curious about with blackhat SEO is did did the industry
evolved away from it because of resources were just knowledge or did it
evolve because I had no choice because Google got better
at a job so that’s an interesting question and and there are there are a
few factors if one and the most interesting factor was that with each
update either penny wheeler Panda and we don’t really hear about them nowadays
but the competition got smaller so a lot of I remember when there was either
first or third penguin I think rolling out there are a few agencies in Poland
with like 500 employees closing down like Monday there is an update Tuesday
there would be the announcing that they’re closing down the amount of
losses for their clients they have like 2,000 clients do you think like like
link networks and ranking them through those and it’s not only in Poland the
same for UK Germany and whatever so I heard like a lot of SEO agencies using
the at Cana approach would close down overnight so that’s something you didn’t
see today so first of all penguin and panda were massive massive changes for
like that’s how Google was trying to approach the fact that everyone was
creating links on scale through automated ways and it was very difficult
for them to cut that so they did very good at that so that’s one the second
thing is I guess that actually for us and we stopped with blackhat before it
was completely dead and because I for me it was like more of a personal reason I
my first kid was born and it was a very difficult way of of building your
business it’s not really a business like it’s like you’re a bounty hunter in a
way you’ve got a very good month you get two amazing months then it’s all gone
it’s difficult to build something long-term around that and I quickly
realized that with all the like the technical knowledge we had from building
those scripts scraping google scraping like ten other search engines to find
patterns and to find more forums or whatever and we could use that and so
what we started doing if we started taking all the massive
brands and helping them recover because we are the only ones with the only
agency back then able to find everything they did or their agency did in a very
shady way and backtrack that find every single link and you know this about that
and and recover and why that agencies had no idea about how to even tackle
that right so so it was literally a necessary kind of component towards your
success oh yeah oh yeah and I remember and that’s actually that’s actually
funny in 2000 yeah I guess it is in 2012-13 when we said that we’re stopping
with the affiliation business and we’re going to like being hundred percent
white hat we were extremely how do you say that
most of the industry kind of turned back on us they were like you guys are silly
it’s not gonna happen I used a nice word they didn’t say silly
it was a very long sentence and if I’m gonna happen like that and and and there
was this joke that there are black hat SEO & white hat SEO ins and the only
difference is that one of them have traffic and and so on there is those all
those you know and jokes and everything I remember going to a conference saying
okay you’re like talking networking and saying okay guys we’re going to
technical SEO they were like everyone was like this is the most ridiculous
idea they’ve heard of now it’s the other way around if you would say okay I’m
building four million links per hour everyone was like that’s not ethical you
know it so the whole industry has changed so much like I would say it’s a
completely like a massive shift over like six seven years I think that’s it
thank you very much thank you very much

One thought on “The Surprising UPSIDE to BLACK HAT SEO!

  1. Łukasz Biel Post author

    You bring me old memories. Some kind of blackhat still is alive but it's more costly, and still requires technical skills.


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